Josh Barnett


"The fact that I don't get nervous doesn't make my preparation better than my opponent." Josh Barnett, former UFC Heavyweight Champion 

Watch The Full Interview Here


A new Human protein-based surgical gel can seal wounds in 60 seconds, and this has big applications for traumatic injuries and wartime physicians. Hear all about this new medical breakthrough on Science this week. Plus, we all go through the day to day grind and sometimes lose sight of the big picture. Taking care of yourself for the long term lifespan can be hard, and it is the idea behind What Fuels You. Finally, hear details about the upcoming RUNDEAD event and the release of the new Halloween Mug from the World's Strongest Coffee.



Josh Barnett has been professionally fighting for over 20 years, which is a feat few if any can achieve. He is a former UFC Heavyweight Champion and the inaugural and current Metamoris Heavyweight Champion. He fights with the style of Catch Wrestling, which he explains on the show this week. Josh also talks about his career and how the sport has changed since he started fighting, and what the future might hold.


Dustin: Well I want to open up and talk about music a little, because we've had a lot of metal musicians on this podcast, shout out to John Longstreth from Origin on episode 23. But we're wondering, you know, how much do you listen to metal, do you use metal to pump you up before your fights, or competition, whatnot?

Josh: I usually tend to go to muzak, like the kind of stuff that you would hear in your random mall store in the early '80s. You know, as far as being pumped up, Lionel Richie or Christopher Cross.

Jeff: Does that just make you angry, or is that getting you really, your blood boiling?

Josh: Absolutely upsetting.

Jeff: I love it. I absolutely love it.

Josh: Well, I do listen to metal to pump me up obviously. Since Bolt Thrower is my walk out music. Metal is, I mean I like a lot of music. I listen to a ton of different stuff, I've been on a real Kraftwerk kick lately, and I went to Deus Records' 10th anniversary on Saturday.

Jeff: Killer.

Josh: Which had any number of type of stuff, like electronic body music, synth pop, my friends Youth Code did a short little set with this other band called [inaudible 00:01:33] Majesty. I love a variety of stuff. I do love seeing live music for sure. I think that really trumps pretty much anything else out there as far as music's concerned. But I've always been a big fan of metal, and if you're gonna be the most metal athlete in the world, it only makes sense that you would listen to metal on a pretty regular basis when it comes to getting ready to do what you do.

Jeff: Hell yeah.

Dustin: Yeah, I've never seen anybody more appropriately covered in blood than you. So yes, that's pretty metal.

Josh: I try. I try. Mostly their blood, that's the intent anyways.

Dustin: Yeah, but maybe a little mix. That's always good, right, you've gotta take a couple battle scars.

Josh: Seems likely.

Dustin: So speaking of fighting, I'm curious. Have you had a seriously satisfying victory over somebody that maybe was a nemesis or maybe was a hard fought battle that surprisingly ended in your favor?

Josh: You know. Defeating Rodrigo Nogueira was a great victory because for a long time he was considered-

Dustin: The best.

Josh: The best. And there's always a question of me at one point, but I always felt that I just needed to get in the ring with him to show that there was a difference between the two of us. He just managed to avoid having to tap out that knee bar. Although the funny thing is he was screaming, and then the ref came in and put his hands on us, and I didn't realize it was because time had expired, I thought it was 'cause they were calling the match. But either way. Also beating Frank Mir was very satisfying because of it being a return to the UFC and also just a lot of people going on and on and on endlessly about wanting to watch us fight. About how they were so looking forward to us fighting, oh what a great fight it's gonna be, because they all assumed it was gonna be two guys grappling the whole time.

Dustin: Yeah.

Josh: Which didn't happen at all, because I just went out there and just matched him. 'Cause what's the point of wrestling around with a guy who wants to grapple, when you can punch his face in and he's not gonna like it?

Dustin: Agreed. I feel like that happens a lot with grapplers, where they know it's gonna get ugly if it goes to the ground, so it ends up staying on the feet a little bit longer than everybody expects. Especially with wrestlers.

Josh: Yeah, I could see that. But to me I also just thought, well what makes you think that I'm gonna bother to grapple with this guy? Why won't I fight him on the feet?

Jeff: Right.

Josh: It's fine. At the end of the day, I determine my fate at [inaudible 00:04:26].

Jeff: Truth. So I read somewhere, or maybe I heard you say this in an interview-

Josh: No way. There's no way that you read, I'm not buying it.

Jeff: He has my number already, I definitely do not read. You're totally right on that. But I heard somewhere, I think it was in an interview that you had done a while back where you- and the quote kinda stuck with me. Where you said that you have no fear in the ring. And you're just, you're unafraid of your opponent because, as you put it, what's the worst they can do to you? Knock you out? That's what you're trying to do to them. That really kinda brings a larger question into mind. Is there anything in this world that scares you?

Josh: Yes, honestly. Of course. Everybody's got a fear of something. Sea anemones. Those things, really weird.

Jeff: The little weird underwater things? Yeah those things freak the hell out of me.

Dustin: The ocean in general freaks the hell out of me.

Josh: You know, being raped by a dolphin, not into that.

Dustin: Yeah, that's scary.

Jeff: 'Nother ocean thing. Are you a strong swimmer?

Josh: Any actual fears that are all that unusual. I have a buddy who's afraid of moths, of all things. I don't know why. Wasn't even a Silence of the Lambs reference, he's just afraid of moths.

Jeff: Just afraid of moths, huh.

Josh: You know what's really terrifying to me is the idea of doing standup comedy. That, for one.

Dustin: I think that's an anybody. In fact we were talking to Tate Fletcher about that, 'cause right as we interviewed him was right before he went up and did standup comedy for the first time, just because it scared the shit out of him.

Josh: See, it's on my bucket list of something to do as well. I don't really have any goal of pursuing that as a career per se, but I've found that by confronting the things that scare you, by ... At the very least, moving forward in that direction and not allowing the fear of something to keep you from doing it, rationally, I mean talking about something like doing a standup comedy set or ... Like singing on stage is really frightening to me. And I've done it a few times, but it's still terrifying.

Jeff: It's just like anything though. It's only terrifying the first 50 times you do it, right?

Josh: The first 50? I don't know. Some of those things, it's so far, maybe the idea of it is so far from me that I can't understand the idea of not having that, like that feeling in my chest. But nonetheless, going out there and doing it, I think, even if you don't succeed in perhaps what you were hoping for as far as execution's concerned, but to do it itself, I think moves mountains inside people. And there have been times where I've been out in a ring, approaching a crowd in Japanese and just ... About to just full on break out into a sweat for no good reason other than just the nerves of thinking of doing a shitty job. And the adrenaline rush of it is pretty fun, but all that lead up, whoa. Makes you want to just crawl away and disappear.

Dustin: And you fought in Japan for like, what, like seven years or something? It was a crazy long time. Did you do that just because it scared the shit out of you?

Josh: No, no, no, no. I mean the fighting part and all of that, just give me a mic and let me go, that's one thing. But it was a pre-planned promo cut for Sandoku's New Years Eve [inaudible 00:08:22] that they were gonna do. And so I had to, they had me go out there and do a big spiel in Japanese and in English. And the Japanese part, while I can get by, I know that for your general Japanese person who's talking to me it's like dealing with their uncle's slow child or something. It's like, there, there. I know you have no idea what a conjugation is, but. You get the idea. And for me I don't wanna go out in front of, I don't know, 20,000 plus people and start Tarzan speaking all over the place. [inaudible 00:09:05] encourage these folks to tune in and watch or buy a ticket. So that moment was pretty alive, so to speak.
But fighting is the easiest thing. Fighting is super easy. Just going out there and mashing someone in the face is awesome. Makes me feel alive. And at the same time, I don't ever think I'm gonna go out there and not get touched. And to be hit. And to have someone unload into me and then give them a look back like, oh yeah. This is what it means to be alive. That to me is an incredible experience. Hold on one second, before my stupid laptop tries to die on me.

Dustin: Oh yeah, we don't want that.

Josh: We definitely don't. And, hoorah.

Dustin: Solved, awesome.

Josh: Yeah, the fighting part is easy.

Dustin: Was it always easy for you though? Do you think it's just a thing that you've just done it for so long that it doesn't freak you out anymore?

Josh: It never really did. It's just the way I'm wired. And I've explained this to, plenty of times just in interviews and what have you, but also to a lot of athletes that I work with. And that is that fact that I don't get nervous doesn't make me ... Or doesn't make my preparation better than theirs. It's really, because at the end of the day, what you need to get to that highest functioning area of who you are is what is necessary. And I remember being told a story by the legendary Satoru Sayama, the founder of Shooto and legendary professional wrestler Tiger Mask. He told a story about a boxing champion in Japan who would get insanely nervous before all of his fights. Like throw up, all that kinda stuff.

Dustin: Yeah.

Josh: Which is, you know, terrible.
And he hated it. And so he went to, he did hypnotherapy, this guy, to remove those nerves before his fights. And he went out there and his next fight he didn't have any of that kind of stuff, and he performed terribly and miserably and he lost. And the thing was is that that guy needed to be on that ragged edge of mental comfort to perform his best. You know, the fact that I don't get nerves before my fight doesn't mean that I don't get excited. I'm not absolutely blasé in the back, just smoking on a long-stemmed cigarette with a beret. That's not me. But to me it's an opportunity to fully exist as a human being, more than anything else. I get to be probably the most of myself as I can be as a human, at least as me, as my person in those moments.

Jeff: Hey, I mean, and it's hard for anybody to find that. And it's inspiring to hear someone who you have a handle on it. You know what makes you the most you that you can be. And I think that's pretty awesome.
For someone like me, who I know most about professional fighting and MMA from my co-host here, Dustin. And I've been learning as much as I can, but for me and for a lot of our listeners, can you explain the style that you fight in, which is catch wrestling. And I know a little bit about it, but I wanna hear about it from someone who utilizes it on the regular.

Dustin: Instead of regurgitated from me.

Jeff: Yeah.

Josh: Okay. Probably the best way I could put it in layman's terms let's say, is it's a lot like you're at a family function and you guys have just had dinner, and you're waiting for dessert to come around, so people are kinda milling about maybe. And there's that uncle that's been drinking most of the day. And he tracked you down in the basement for a minute.

Jeff: Go on.

Josh: There's sort of an indecent amount of tickling.

Jeff: And this is catch wrestling.

Josh: Yeah, this is catch wrestling. This is how I've made my money and my mark in the world.

Dustin: I told you they touch butt holes.

Josh: Yeah. Lots of that. Oh yeah.

Jeff: Oh wow.

Josh: I'll only use spit if I like you.

Jeff: Ha, man. If I had a nickel.

Josh: The easiest way to think about it is collegiate and folk style wrestling are basically the great-great-grandchildren of catch. Catch as catch can. So the element of having wrestling on the feet and the down position and the top position on the mats is really, it all comes from catch as catch can. Free style and [inaudible 00:14:37] have really no groundwork whatsoever, and catch wrestling matches allowed for lots of time to be spent trying to break down a guy, ride him, look for the pin. And in amongst that, get the submission. The term no holds barred is actually derived from catch as catch can. Because at times they would bar what they would call strangle holds, or they might bar some other type of submission. And so if the match was no holds barred, then you could use any hold, period. And you know, these are things that were all negotiated from time to time and place to place, depending on who's wrestling in whatever territorial specific rules or what have you.
But it is a wrestling style which emphasizes being on top of your opponent, top control. Trying to pin your opponent. Which, even if you're competing in say jujitsu or something, like MMA, you're not going to win via pin fall, but what you are doing is at least establishing dominant control on top, allowing yourself to work from there, and at least with MMA I think that pinning is incredibly useful because you're riding the guy, you're taking his ability to breathe without labor away, and you're scoring shots on top. Elbows, and then working for whatever else might be available. The other thing about catch is that we don't really ... There aren't any taboo submission holds.
And we like neck locks and leg locks and all that kinda stuff and there really, unlike jujitsu, which has a very regimented sporting application and rule set that they base a lot of their training off of, we don't have that per se. There are a smattering of catch wrestling matches that do occur and we're throwing one in February here in Orange County, it's an amateur catch wrestling system that we've been doing for a while. But the reality is, we're not limited by that sort of thing. So if anything, we have a very open set of ways to train, submissions to use, and we like to brutalize and punish the ever living shit out of people when we're on top.

Jeff: That's what I gleaned from it. It was a lot of punishment.

Dustin: I'm curious, do you relate yourself to Sakuraba, who is known as a gracie hunter, in bringing catch wrestling to the mainstream by beating the best jujitsu fighters with unconventional tactics?

Josh: Yeah. You know, some of that stuff is unconventional simply because people only know it from a jujitsu background.

Dustin: Right.

Josh: So it's unconventional to them, but it's- I mean who has the authority on convention in terms of how you submit a human being? So I, yes, Sakuraba and myself do actually share relations in that both of us have trained under Billy Robinson, both of us are catch wrestlers and professional wrestlers. We both are derived from the UWF style of training for fighting and wrestling, professional wrestling. And we have that lineage also back to Carl [inaudible 00:17:59], who are our teachers too.

Dustin: Wow. That's awesome. Do you think there's enough money in professional jujitsu competition to become mainstream at all.

Josh: Yeah. I think so. It all really depends on what's your end goal of, what are your expectations here. You know. Like everything in life, your expectations really determine whether you're let down or not. And I think that there is money in professional grappling in general. But it's never gonna be like what you can get from prize fighting. However, there's still a good market for it. I don't know how many people can really ply a trade entirely doing grappling matches for money. Because it takes quite a bit to travel, and not all of these are big enough shows that they could pay to fly you out. But I do know that people are able to leverage a lot of these costs based on doing seminars, and travel out to places. But then you gotta be good enough that someone actually wants to pay to learn a seminar from you. So, you know. It's a process.

Jeff: You've been in the game now since the late '90s, professionally fighting and wrestling. The sport has changed a lot in that time frame. Do you think it has changed for the better, or is it harder to be a competitor now?

Josh: It's all relative. It's for the better in terms of notoriety, pay checks, opportunity outside of fighting specifically. There is more places to train, it's easier to find gear, there's a lot of things to it that have improved substantially. But I would say that the actual full on base spirit of fighting has gotten worse, in my opinion. I feel like the old school, you know ... Warrior mentality of wanting to go out there and travel the world and find the best people and just mash the shit out of 'em, that doesn't really exist anymore. I feel like the sport itself has also become somewhat boring because there is no difference between one place and the other, most of the time. It's like you're watching the same thing over and over and over again.
Even in and amongst that, I think that the unified rule set, it needs more tailoring, and I don't think five minutes for a single round is enough time for these high level athletes to work. I think that judging on a 10 point [inaudible 00:20:52] system also hampers it. And I think that some of the, like reducing the ability of what attacks you can use like knees to the head of a grounded opponent, things like that. I don't really think that a lot of how MMA has been tailored in the modern era over the last I guess I would say five to eight years, maybe, has really been done by those who truly understood what they were looking at in terms of how you create the best-

Dustin: Oh.

Jeff: Uh-oh.

Dustin: Oh.

Josh: Entertainment fresh. Did you get that?

Jeff: Yeah, we just lost the end of that. You were saying how the ability to obtain the best of it, and then it cut.

Josh: Right, for the athletes to remain able to work in the best dynamic environment available to them, and also for the product itself to be as entertaining as it can be, because we're not fighting in front of nobody, we're fighting because people are paying tickets to come see us. Or pay per views or what have you. So there's been a lot of arbitrary reasons for why certain things are pulled out, are put in, and it's just, and no that's not a euphemism. But it's I think it's been to the detriment of what fighting can be at its best.

Dustin: And I think we're kinda seeing the result of that a little bit. I think viewership has gone down a bit. But it kinda sounds like you might yearn for the old pride days, the first round being 10 minutes, and the knee strikes to the grounded opponent, to the head and whatnot. Do you miss the old pride days?

Josh: I do, a lot. And I even miss like the old school pancreas days with open hands and ring escapes and stuff. Like rope escapes.

Dustin: That was fun.

Josh: But, you know, it's like there's a differentiation between how much do you want to be a sport versus how much do you want it to be prize fighting. And if you try to cut the difference between the two but you don't go one way or the other, you just get this bastard that doesn't really fulfill either. And so, like when it comes to amateur MMA, which most places I've seen, and I think it's bullshit, is just fake prize fighting where you don't pay the athletes. And so the claim was always well we need to prepare people for the pros. And it's like well no, that's not the point of amateur athletics. Amateur athletics is so two schmoes like yourself could go out there, get jacked up on some Valhalla [inaudible 00:23:36] force, go swing on each other until somebody says I'm done, or shits their pants from caffeine overload.

Dustin: Or both!

Josh: Or both. Or both. We can't always hope for the best results. But the thing is, they'll have these kids go out there, fight two minute rounds, which is pointless, you can't really get anything accomplished. They've got 'em stripping shin guards off at like three fights or something, I'm going what's the point? Just let 'em wear shin guards. The whole point of having a shin guard is not that you're not gonna kick someone in the leg with a shin guard on and not hurt 'em, trust me I've trained long enough to know that when Jerome Le Banner wears a shin guard and kicks you in the leg, it fucking hurts. But it's so that you don't go on the podcast with a giant set of stitches in your forehead, or in your eyebrow, because someone shinned you right in the eye. And this is amateurs.
And then you've got these kids just basically sprinting across the ring, charging, taking the other guy down, and then just [inaudible 00:24:42] pounding him as hard and as fast as they can until they stop it. And it's like well how is anybody getting any better with that? And if anything, it would be better to not have them punching guys in the face, and having to use force to use a more well rounded skill set. Or it's like when it comes to the professionals, giving guys a bit more time to work, let's say 10 minutes. And if you're worried about a sporting aspect, then you know take out things like elbows. Take out things that cause cuts. Now realize you are reducing the-

Dustin: Oh. Oh.

Josh: But you are making things sportier. Now, if you want it to be more like prize fighting, then give them more options. But don't baby the fighters either, because nobody is going into this not knowing full and well what could happen. You know? So it's just like, I remember having a conversation with a really well renowned official in MMA and going, we need one night tournaments again. And they just like scoffed. No, they can't do it, these guys- it's like well. We're the best level of athletes that we've ever had, at this point. And every form of combat sport has won that tournament.

Dustin: Don't you think that shortens the lifespan of a fighter, though? Especially that coming from a dude who's fought for 20 years, you know?

Josh: No. I don't. I don't think so. I think that training shortens the lifespan of fighters more than anything else.

Dustin: Oh. That's a good point. Gym wars, man. Gym wars'll kill you.

Josh: I think it's the thing that really takes its toll, because as many punches as you might receive in a bout, it doesn't compare in any way to the amount of times you're gonna get hit in the head training.

Dustin: And nobody's counting either, it's just, nobody's paying attention, there's no regulation there, it's kinda scary. I'm curious, how much of that type of fighting have you done in your day? Did you cut that out early? Or did you ever run into training in that fashion where you had these big gym battles?

Josh: Uh, yeah man. I mean I started training in the bare knuckle days and we used to have just wars. But I'm not one of the guys that would say that going out there and going toe to toe with people is always wrong. I think that there is ... You train for the thing that you're going to do. And so nobody is gonna go in a MMA fight and go 60%. That's just not gonna happen. You need to understand the difference between the speed and the tempo and the exertion and intensity. Those things are needed. But you don't need to do that all the time.

Dustin: I've seen that though in a fight where you see guys go like 60% and it becomes the most boring fight in the world, and I think that's due to just over-sparring under light intensity.

Josh: Could be. You know, it's hard to say. But I think that there is a good balance that can be achieved between loading up the guns and letting loose and being very, very deliberate in terms of levels of safety and work rate.

Dustin: Yeah. So I gotta ask. After 20 crazy years in the fight game and being at the top of your game almost the whole way, what fuels you to keep going today?

Josh: Lots of coffee.

Jeff: Easy answer.

Josh: That is reality.

Jeff: What keeps you wanting to compete? I mean, like Dustin just said, you've been consistently at the top of your game and a lot of guys will do that for a little bit and then be like, well I made it to that echelon and I'm done. But you keep getting out there and you keep mashing faces, and you keep putting smiles on our faces because you're doing that, but what keeps you wanting to do that?

Josh: Well, I think one of the biggest things is just my own personal internal motivation to, you know, be a fighter for as long as I can, because when I'm no longer a fighter, as far as a competitive fighter, it's done. It's not coming back, that window is closed. But you know, you don't get to choose when this is over often. And sometimes it's just chosen for you. So while I still have the ability to go out there and compete and do so at a high level, so I want to use it up while I have it. And I love it. I absolutely love fighting. The fighting part of it is amazing. I love it. It is the greatest thing ever. All the other stuff is kind of a pain in the fucking ass. You take what you can get. I mean nothing is just given to you in its optimal, most loved, easiest to digest form.

Jeff: Are you working towards a fight right now? Is there anything on the horizon that is coming in your camp?

Josh: No. No, no, not for me at all, actually. I'm still just taking a hiatus. After my last fight, I decided to go on an actual vacation. Yeah, it had been decades since I'd really had one. So I went and toured all over Europe, doing a few seminars here and there but mostly just seeing sites, having fun, hanging out with friends. And that's what I've been doing, in addition to just all the other stuff that isn't fighting related but that never gets to get tended to when I do have fights because training camps take up all of your time. Because there's when you're training, then there's the eating for training, then there's the second training session, recovery, everything that goes with it. And so for me, I've been working on possibly doing some more movie stuff, doing a Japan pro wrestling show for access television, which is on every night at 8 p.m. on access. Training my fighters and pro wrestlers. Shayna Baszler is in the [inaudible 00:30:59] classic on the WWE network right now.

Jeff: That's awesome.

Josh: If you own that, go take a look. And go and see the rebirth of the old school ways of professional wrestling now being shown-

Jeff: Oh. Oh.

Dustin: And he's back.

Jeff: You cut out for a second there.

Dustin: Sorry, we lost you for a second, you're back though.

Jeff: But I am really excited about all the stuff you've been doing with wrestling and it is exactly what you just said. It's bringing back the hay day of that sport, you know? That sport got away from everything, to the point where it was basically daytime television, for a very long time. It still is. But it's exciting to see someone like you involved with what's happening in those programs, like you were just saying. Like I think that's really exciting.

Josh: Well I really love professional wrestling. I love the history of it, the roots of it. And I think that basically when professional wrestling became, basically when [inaudible 00:32:10] was dropped, and everybody knew that it was a work, what happened was people didn't feel like they had to actually be wrestlers or fighters anymore. They could just pretend everything now.

Jeff: You could just be an actor.

Josh: Yeah, you could just fake it. And to me, I just felt ... Well look. If you wanna just go out there and do a bunch of stunts, and a bunch of tricking and whatever, then I would rather go watch Cirque de Soleil. Because those guys are the best in the world at that, not you. You're just some really undersized dude from, I don't know, who knows where, who never fought, never did anything, and knows how to do a bunch of choregraphy, but you don't know how to actually put a hold on somebody, literally take someone down who doesn't wanna be taken down, throw someone for real. And the thing is, without that reality base of training I think that it really hampers what professional wrestling can be. And that's why I always felt like the new Japan stuff was the best because those guys are going to the dojo and they get trained to be fighters basically, and then in and amongst that, they get taught how to work. And so I just felt like their stuff was always better.
But even the guys in the old days. Going through like [inaudible 00:33:36] barn, where you get the iron cheek. Ric Flair. And then you had Eddie Shark working with the Road Warriors. And those guys, you know, they would tell the story that the guy didn't really teach him how to work any matches, he just beat the crap out of 'em and made them train their asses off, and then just sent them out there. So the thing was is that these guys weren't teaching how to be dancers, they were teaching you how to be legitimate tough guys and then just kind of polishing towards working in the way. And I think that's why a lot of those really old school classic wrestlers that people still look up to will basically put on that pedestal in terms of idolatry, that's why. Because they were the package and the box.

Jeff: Yes. They were professionals. Like you touched on earlier, a lot of the wrestlers in today's day and age, they're an actor first, and then they learn the moves. The reason why it was electric to watch Ric Flair get into a ring is because he was a professional at it. He didn't just scream woo at the heavens, he could actually do those moves, and that's why they were so amazing to watch. And again that's why I think it's really cool that that is starting to creep back in, and you're a part of that, and I think that's just excellent.

Josh: I try to be, and I've been able to work with some great athletes, like-

Dustin: Oh.

Josh: Obviously [inaudible 00:35:15] now. Working with, doing this Mae Young Classic. Nicole Savoy, who is also in the Mae Young Classic. And I've had just people coming through as much as possible and just trying to help 'em out. The thing is, it's like people will get hung up on the idea of this move or that move. Moves don't matter. I'll teach you what as I know as far as moves are concerned, and if you want help on developing something else or how to perfect something, I can help you. A move is easy. But it's the sentiment, the way you approach doing all this stuff, and then how you time and put all this stuff together, you know? If someone's gonna stand around and wait for you to do something then it just looks fake.

Dustin: Yup. Totally. Looks like a shitty movie.

Jeff: Yeah.

Josh: Yes, exactly. And you know, by the way, Ric Flair was like a college football standout. This was not just some dude who saw an internet ad or [inaudible 00:36:18] school and went out there and joined it. This was a dude that was a high level athlete and then just to get into wrestling. And then to get into wrestling he trained at [inaudible 00:36:27] barn, or you had Billy Robinson making this dude run and wrestle, and do all this stuff every single day.

Jeff: I can't imagine what the regimen would have been like. I mean I can, I've actually read some books on it and stuff, well I pretended to read. But-

Josh: You looked at some pictures.

Jeff: I looked at some pictures. But I can't imagine actually going through that regimen and having to do it, oh my god.

Josh: There's a documentary on the AWA. It was on Netflix, I'm sure it's on the WWE Network 'cause I believe they've got all the rights to it. But they probably are who produced it. And it's pretty fantastic.

Jeff: Ah, I've gotta check it out. Cool.

Dustin: So are you eyeballing the UFC heavyweight division? Is there anybody that you'd like to match up against to test your skills against? Is there anybody that you'd like to call out on an awesome show?

Josh: Yes. And his name is whoever pays me the most money.

Jeff: I know that guy!

Dustin: Yeah, his name is Conor McGregor.

Jeff: Yeah, right?

Josh: I'm not really keeping real close tabs on any of that kind of stuff. There's nothing there that I'm not familiar with, and they're all very tough, talented, athletic guys. Whoever that would be is just a matter of doing a training camp and going out there and fighting. And beyond that, you know, it's all [inaudible 00:37:48].

Dustin: I asked Liz Carmouche this. Do you think it's more beneficial for fighters to be doing the shit talking and the calling out and being more aggressive about it? Do you think those type of fighters end up getting paid more?

Josh: I think that if someone is sincere, in doing that. Not necessarily sincere in trying to humiliate somebody, let's say. But sincere in what they say and why they're saying it and what they're feeling. Then I'm sure it'll work. Whether it's talking shit or not. I think that Conor McGregor is sincere about all the shit he talks, but I think he's sincere mainly because what he's doing is he's adding pressure on himself to perform up to what he has said. I think he's basically amping himself up by making such bold statements that you have to back them up.

Dustin: It's like the nervous fighter before a fight almost. It's just his way of being where he needs to be before he fights.

Josh: Correct. I think so. But at the same time, you know, I think he's having fun with it and it gets people's attention. I think that if you're gonna go out there and talk shit, and you're being inauthentic-

Dustin: Aw, it sucks. It sucks to see that.

Josh: And it's not gonna work.

Jeff: When you get in the ring, what do you think is more important to have, intelligence or confidence?

Josh: Brass knuckles.

Jeff: I'm taking notes.

Dustin: Hey we saw what happened against Judo Gene LeBell, he took care of those brass knuckles in due time. So maybe that's not the best idea.

Josh: A truncheon maybe, then?

Jeff: My goodness.

Josh: A club. A gun. I love it. Oh man.

Dustin: But seriously. If you had to pick one. Would you wanna be intelligent about your approach, or would you wanna be confident about your approach?

Josh: I think confidence can trump intelligence in this scenario. Because I've seen plenty of guys that were quite intelligent at what they were doing, and then go out there and then lose faith in themselves and what they were doing, and allow that other, that opponent to take advantage of that lack of belief. Where I've seen total morons believe that they were way better than they really were, go out there and find success. Of course, it comes to a point where they need that person there that's not only skilled but confident, and they get fucking wrecked. But that stupid blind confidence has served, I have seen serve people quite well.

Dustin: Interesting. I gotta change my approach.

Josh: Well you have to measure all your results and then go and make changes from there on out. And the trouble with some of these confidence guys is as soon as their bell gets rung and they get knocked dick in the dirt, that's when all of a sudden their own mortality becomes aware to them, and that often is the downfall of that fighter.

Dustin: And we've seen that happen so many times. We've seen fighters completely ruined from a quick loss. And then that's the end of that fighter for the rest of their career.

Jeff: Yeah. It's crazy. Well I gotta say, I cannot wait for you to get back in the ring, but take your time. Enjoy your time off.

Dustin: Not the ring, the octagon.

Jeff: The octagon, sorry. See, he corrects me on all this stuff, which is good. But we definitely want to thank you for taking the time to talk to us on the podcast. Is there- do you social media at all? Is there any way that your fans or our fans can follow you on social media?

Josh: Oh, hundred percent. I'm on all the stupid absolutely vapid social networks.

Jeff: All right.

Josh: I'm on the Facebook at That's my fan page. I have a Twitter and an Instagram. At joshlbarnett. Or you can go and see all my musings, rantings, ravings, and general dark and fucked up sense of humor.

Jeff: Awesome. Awesome.

Dustin: So when do you start your standup career?

Jeff: Yes. We're coming.

Dustin: When's that happening?

Josh: I don't know man. There's a long way to go for that. That truly sounds like a horrific experience in execution. But you know, the fact is, Tate just went up there and did it. And he goes, in five minutes I think I'm gonna go do another. I thought, all right. That's just boldness personified. And I told him, I go, now you've basically just made me look like a bitch. I should do something about it, probably sooner than later. But I'm really proud of Tate in doing that, because I knew that he was super nervous about the whole process himself.

Dustin: He was super nervous. I asked him one question about it, and he got very-

Jeff: He clammed right up, yeah.

Dustin: He got very angry at me.

Jeff: Stop laughing at me.

Dustin: What's with all the questions!

Josh: There are some really shitty comics. I have seen some really terrible, unfunny people get on stage and put a mic in front of themselves. That's where that confidence versus intelligence thing shows, which can be more important. I think that at least in this regard I'm intelligent enough to know how humiliating that whole process could possibly turn out. I don't know. Maybe I'm just overthinking it. But nonetheless, until then, I'll just keep doing what I do.

Jeff: I think you actually worked out a couple minutes of material in this podcast, I think you could glean off of. You had both of us laughing.

Dustin: I think you would kill. I think you should do it.

Jeff: Yeah. You've got our support, man. So for sure.

Josh: Yeah, well. It's always a different story when you're up there on the mic with a spotlight on you. And everyone's like, 'kay make us laugh now. Are we laughing yet? No, we're not laughing. I want my money back.

Dustin: Well you could always threaten them. And then they'll laugh.

Josh: This is true. I think that's actually the threatening approach could be some easy laughs. Or maybe at least nervous titters.

Dustin: Or at least a good fall back. If they're not laughing, then just move straight to the threatening and the punching and the kicking and the bleeding. It'll be great.

Jeff: Yeah. It all works out. All works out in the wash.

Josh: You know what? I'm gonna wing this highball glass at you, if you don't fuckers start laughing.

Jeff: I love it. I love it. I wanna be in the front row.

Dustin: All right. The War Master, the Baby Faced Assassin, the Blue Eyed Kenshiro, thank you so much for joining us, man. It's really been a pleasure.

Josh: My pleasure. I've been drinking this stuff for a long time.

Dustin: You're the perfect face for Valhalla Java. You are the Viking himself, so just let me know and we'll get some stuff out to you right away.

Josh: Hundred percent man. I remember buying just the original Death Wish for my mom, because she, I mean I'm from Seattle. So coffee's basically like 60% of our blood. So for her, she loved getting like, quadruple shot lattes and stuff like that and I go okay. Try this stuff. This has gotta be better than what you're doing at the moment. And sure enough, she was in love with it. And of course, what was the first thing I bought? The Valhalla [inaudible 00:45:21].

Dustin: Oh yeah. Zach wild smiled that day. He smiled very broadly.
All right, well thank you so much man, it's really been a pleasure. And I hope to be there on your next fight. I don't know when or where that's happening, but I'm seriously such a huge fan, I wanna be there when that happens.

Josh: Every night we could be hanging out at a bar, and it's on.

Jeff: Yay! I'll videotape.

Dustin: Wait, was I just threatened?

Jeff: Yes. Or maybe a joke.

Dustin: Oh! Thank god.

Josh: Maybe. Maybe.

Jeff: Maybe.

Dustin: Thank you very much Josh, and we'll talk to you soon, man. Thank you for being such an awesome supporter.

Josh: Thanks.