Chaco Canyon in New Mexico has some strange and mysterious artifacts, and some intriguing burial sites dating back to 800 A.D.. Tune into this week's Science segment to uncover the truth. The ability to believe in yourself kicks off What Fuels You, and a brewing method for coffee that is popular in Europe is making its way to the United States, and the World's Strongest Coffee is getting ready.
ABOUT SIERRA MEISSER:
Sierra Meisser is our very own customer service superstar as well as the reputation manager at Death Wish Coffee Company. She talks about what it was like when she got hired, her everyday interactions with customers and how she loves to go rock climbing and challenge herself outside of work.
Dustin: Cool. Can you talk a little bit about what this company looked like when you started to what it has changed into now?
Sierra: I came in shortly after you all had found out that you had won the Big Game Commercial.
Dustin: Right, yeah.
Sierra: When I was interviewing, Kane and Mike interviewed me. They were like, yeah, we think we won, but really they had signed an NDA and couldn't tell me that they had won. I remember coming out of my first day and Kane slapping the NDA agreement in front of me and being like, oh yeah, we won, by the way.
Dustin: That's awesome.
Sierra: I was like, oh okay. I really didn't know the company was like before that.
Jeff: Had you heard of Death Wish Coffee before you applied?
Sierra: I remember seeing it on Facebook when everyone was voting and everything for the competition, but I found the job on Craigslist. I literally searched "coffee" into Craigslist looking for a new job, and it popped up and I remember seeing the team photo on there. Teah holding the bag out with this awesome grin, yeah. I was like yeah, I definitely want to get in on that. Yeah, I never really knew what the company was like before the craziness.
Dustin: Can you talk a little bit about what it was like when you started? Pretty much like the evolution of the company since you've been here?
Sierra: Yeah. I was the 11th employee, I think. Since then, it's literally more than doubled.
Dustin: Yeah, I think we're maybe up to 26 by now.
Sierra: It's been crazy to watch that happen because that's just happened in every aspect of the company. I mean ... I think that when I came in, we were really just starting to get in the phase of things getting very organized and since then, so many systems have been put into place. I talk every day to Caiden and my co-worker, Kristine, about how things are just running smoothly lately.
Dustin: Oh careful, don't jinx it.
Sierra: Compared to when I first came in though, I feel like every ... We always hit a wall in some aspect. Every day, there's some obstacle that we needed to get through. Recently, it's just been very smooth and I think that's just from everyone putting things into place over this past year that really made it that way.
Dustin: Yeah. By the way, number one selling coffee on Amazon.com still hires on Craigslist.
Jeff: Yes, alright. You're a customer service superstar, but can you talk a little bit about when you first got hired? What were some of the first tasks or jobs that you started out doing as opposed to what you obviously do now, which is handling a lot of the interaction? Was that what you started doing as well or was it a little different?
Sierra: No, I had no hand in any public customer service whatsoever. I think the very first thing that Caiden and Kane trusted me with was answering surveys that we send out via email after someone purchased from the website. That was also just a really great way to learn about what kind of people are drinking our coffee and also how crazy they are about it in both directions, positive and negative. They're very positive people. I think just going through hundreds of surveys every day, I really got a good grasp on what I was about to be dealing with.
Dustin: I've heard about the ... Have you heard about the 3:33 Rule?
Dustin: If you've done something good that somebody likes, they'll tell three people, but if you've done something bad for somebody, they'll tell 33 people.
Dustin: So you're more likely to hear from the people who are dissatisfied than from the people who are satisfied.
Sierra: Yeah. The thing about coffee too is that people are passionate about it either way. You see how coffee fits into their day-to-day in all different ways. Some people are very straightforward about it. They just want the most instant way to get it in their mug and in their mouths. Then other people are very ... It's a huge hobby for them. There are people that, I've learned much from customers just talking about pour-over ratios, and they've narrowed their brewing process down to like ... It's just so detailed and you see that through everything that comes in through customer service. I've learned way more about coffee from talking to people that have reached out to us via email.
Jeff: Were you an avid coffee drinker before coming on the team?
Sierra: I worked at a coffee shop before I started here.
Jeff: As a barista?
Sierra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dustin: Oh, that helps.
Sierra: As a barista, yeah. I had been working there and then also working in a retail store that sold USDA organic fair trade coffee. I started to get a grasp on it when I was working there, but even when I started working there, I hadn't tried coffee until like a year into working there. It just wasn't my thing. Then I realized that there was a lot to learn about it. I feel like most of my knowledge now has come from working here and speaking. When someone asks a question and I don't know the answer to it, I will search for it. I will go on a forum or Yahoo answer it, and you just ... I don't know.
Jeff: You learn more. I know myself, I've been drinking coffee for years and years, but even just being so new at this company, I've learned so much about the process of creating coffee, and brewing coffee, and consuming coffee. For years and years, it was always just put it in my drip machine and hit brew, and that was all I ever thought about it, was if the button lights up or not.
Dustin: It's pretty crazy that the different flavors you can get out of coffee just from brewing it differently, like not even different kinds of coffee. We've discovered that a little bit with the AeroPress. You can have the same grind, the same coffee, the same amount, and just change the amount of time that you're steeping it for, and you will have two different coffees. It's really insane.
Sierra: Yeah. I think there's just an infinite amount of things to learn because it's all about personal preference. Some person takes our coffee and brews it in a Chemex and it could be totally different from the next person that's brewing it in the Chemex. I think that's really cool.
Dustin: Some coffees, I think, are better through different kinds of brewers.
Dustin: I feel like our coffee is definitely best in the Chemex.
Dustin: Like hands down.
Jeff: We've been told that by-
Dustin: By Chemex themselves.
Jeff: Families at large and by Chemex themselves, that our blend really works well with that kind of system, which is satisfying.
Sierra: Yeah. It's cool to watch someone, especially on our community page. You see them and they're into the death cups, then they migrate towards an AeroPress. Then a few months later, they've got a Chemex in their hands and they're like ... You watch them learn all of the benefits of brewing coffee in a great brewer, and that's sweet.
Jeff: That's awesome. Now your job consists mainly of interaction with the consumer, is basically your job at large. That's what that is. What is that like? Do you like doing that? Is that something that-
Dustin: I feel like you're naturally talented at social interaction.
Jeff: Yeah, you're really good at it.
Dustin: What is your secret? That's what I wonder. You interact so well with people. You have the cleverest quirkiest lines. I love it. I love reading your reactions to people. I wonder-
Jeff: Anybody out there who doesn't know when you see the -S, that is Sierra.
Dustin: Like Zorro.
Jeff: It is like Zorro. Basically what I'm trying to ask is, does that come naturally to you or was that something that you kind of had to work into molding yourself into that role in this company, or was that just a natural fit?
Sierra: When I first started, Kane and Caiden really ... One of the biggest things I learned was about the voice, the customer service and of us specifically. I really like to view people like I'm talking to someone I know. I consider myself a pretty goofy person, so it was really easy for me to be that way.
Jeff: Right. That's fine. That's why I say you're so good at it because you do make all of those interactions have that air of like you know that person who you're talking to even though it's obviously the first time, in a lot of instances, that you're interacting with that person.
Sierra: Yeah. I think naturally, people on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, they're already really excited about our coffee. They're posting about it, so it comes naturally to have fun with them. I have to say, I actually just found this page the other day from this website called Punpedia.
Sierra: I'm really into puns and I think sometimes I might even overdo it a little bit.
Dustin: I don't think there's such a thing, by the way.
Sierra: I found this website, and it's called Punpedia. I found their page dedicated to coffee. They take regular words like the word pen and they're like, you can change the word pen to bean. You can change the phrase, what's the matter, to what's Sumatra? That just really like gets me going.
Jeff: Okay. So I'm gonna be looking out for a lot more puns from your neck of the woods then. That's really good.
Dustin: There's the secret, puns.
Jeff: Making the customer feel welcome, making the customer feel like you know them and that interaction, and really the voice that you said. Is there anything ... You've been at this company now for, you said you started right after they [inaudible 00:10:26] so a little over two years?
Sierra: About a year and a half, yeah.
Jeff: In that amount of time, especially in that time of you interacting with customers and stuff like that, is there any fun stories that come to mind that you think back on fondly or maybe not so fondly? We don't have to name names, but the amount of interaction that you do, I'm always curious to find out if there's some that stick out a little bit more than others.
Sierra: For sure.
Jeff: Okay. That's a good answer.
Dustin: The answer is yes.
Sierra: In both good ways and bad. When people reach out to customer service, yeah we get the occasional email just being like, hey, you're doing a really great job. Keep up the awesome work. We love you guys. That's really cool, but most of the time they're reaching out to customer service because they require service. Some people are a little more fueled up than others. That could either be from drinking a lot of coffee or not getting their fill, I don't know. We've definitely talked with some people that were, they had an issue and ... Especially being on social media and being really active, you're very easy to find these days. We've had people reach out and personally ... I don't know if I should even go into it. Maybe we can edit this part out.
Dustin: Usually I would push for the rest of the answer, but I think in this instance, I will leave it behind, but I do want to ask, what do you think is the best way to approach an aggressive dissatisfied customer?
Sierra: I try to approach everyone in a positive manner. You really need to gauge how easygoing you should be towards a person and how seriously you should take something. I think that no matter what when you're talking to someone, you just need to assure them that it's going to be resolved. I think that the best tip I have for customer service, in general, is even when you have to tell a customer something that they might not necessarily want to hear, it's always great to explain yourself and explain, I understand that this is something that's really frustrating to you, and I would probably be frustrated if I were you as well, but this is why we do this thing and this is what we're doing to hopefully change that down the road. In the end, I think most people are really satisfied with that. I think most people see that we're a small team that genuinely cares about what they think of our coffee and having them enjoy it.
Jeff: Wow. We've said this before on this podcast and it just bears repeating that we get constantly people telling the company and ourselves included how they not only enjoy the product but our customer service is by far the best out there, and it's thanks to people like you, for 100%. That's why we were so excited to have you on a podcast because we love talking to the people that make this company tick, but that's not all there is to you. I know for a fact that outside of the company, you do some pretty cool stuff as well. You're an avid rock climber.
Sierra: Yeah. I got into rock climbing about a year ago, a year and a half maybe, and I am hitting it a couple times a week.
Jeff: You're doing the rock walls. Is the goal to climb Everest? Is that the deal?
Sierra: You know what I've actually heard about Everest is that they use people who have died up there as landmarks as they're hiking up. So for that reason, I will not be climbing Everest in my lifetime, but I do love to head out to the Adirondacks. The ultimate goal this summer is for me to start doing some climbing up there.
Jeff: Have you done it with the pins and the clamps and all that?
Sierra: I've done it as a kid going to summer camp but not as an adult. Things are scarier as an adult.
Jeff: I think it's incredible for people like you who do that kind of thing. I'm interested in it, but the other side of me is absolutely terrified of it. It's like, I would love to do it on a wall. In fact, you were telling me that I should try it out and I've actually been thinking about it, but yeah, actually being on a mountain and nailing in your pin and going to the next one and you're hanging from your hands, it's like my arms are going up right now just talking about it.
Sierra: Yeah. You have to have full trust in yourself and believe in yourself. There are climbers out there that climb up huge rock faces in Yosemite and Yellowstone, and they solo climb. They free climb without any gear at all.
Dustin: That's insane. Those guys are crazy.
Sierra: All hands and feet. To do that, I think that you just have to not have any doubt in yourself.
Dustin: Do you think you'd ever be interested in doing anything like that?
Dustin: It's like a, how crazy are you kind of question. That kind of stuff, I feel like ... I've listened to interviews with dudes who do that. It's like, dude, that guy is fucking crazy, straight up.
Sierra: Those kinds of people, they have let go of all materialistic things in their lives, and I think that's a big piece of it. They have nothing to hold them back.
Dustin: Nothing to lose.
Dustin: Yeah, that's crazy. You know the guy who invented spelunking died spelunking while showing his daughter how safe it was?
Jeff: Oh my gosh.
Dustin: Yeah, that one's always like yeah, I guess I'll never do that, which is just like bungee jumping with climbing ropes.
Jeff: Right, into caves.
Sierra: Yeah, but do you think that guy would've wanted to have died any other way?
Dustin: I don't know, maybe if he actually wanted his daughter to bring spelunking to the next level, maybe, but I'm sure she probably doesn't do that now.
Jeff: Yeah. You did bring up a good point though. You said, and this even has to translate for what you're doing on just a normal rock wall, you have to have confidence in yourself. You have to go into that next handhold and putting your foot on that next rung. You have to be confident that that's something I can do and not be second-guessing yourself in that moment, right?
Sierra: Yeah, I think that's the main barrier for me too is I know that I can reach for the next hold with my hand, but I also know that there's a chance that I will slip when I go to reach for it and fall 15 or 20 feet. I think that's the main obstacle to get over when you're climbing, just trusting yourself and knowing that you might fall and being okay with the fact that you might fall.
Dustin: And you're more likely to fall if you're thinking that you might not make it.
Sierra: Oh yeah. You stop breathing, you start to shake.
Dustin: Hands get sweaty, which is not good when you're trying to keep grip.
Dustin: How do you work on overcoming that obstacle? Is that all a mental game then, where you're basically telling yourself, go for that next handheld? Go for that next thing?
Sierra: I think it's mental as much as it's physical. I think that's part of the reason why I enjoy it so much because when you're up there, it's like a puzzle for your body. I think that's why I enjoy it so much. It's very much a mental game as it is a physical game. Yeah.
Dustin: Does that cross over into real life, do you think? Not to real life. Obviously, climbing's really life too but as far as everyday life, do you feel like-
Jeff: Are you talking about like work life kind of thing?
Dustin: Well anything. Like with jiu-jitsu, I feel like it's completely changed the way I approach life. It's helped me think more clearly through chaotic situations. Have you experienced any of that through rock climbing?
Sierra: Yeah. It plays big on my confidence just as a person in general, and it's something that is a release for me, stress-wise. I think if I'm having a day that's a little bit high stress, no matter where I am, to know that I can just drive 10 minutes and go to the gym. Especially with bouldering, you can be totally on your own. You don't need anyone else there, and I think that just being alone with yourself and focusing on making one physical move after the next is very cathartic.
Jeff: It's very interesting. You're a very cool dichotomy as someone who loves to be, like you said, alone by yourself on that wall and working over that problem, but then you are also this person who is very boisterous, very outgoing in your day-to-day job.
Sierra: Oh thanks.
Jeff: Which now, not only is customer service, but you're constantly getting roped into our Facebook Lives and all of our social media. You become this larger than life persona-
Dustin: You're a star, kid.
Jeff: Yeah. This kind of leads into our through-line of this entire podcast. Now that you've been at this job for a while and you have really coalesced into the role that you play, what fuels you to keep getting up every day, and coming to work, and doing that job, doing it the way that you do?
Sierra: On a small scale, I think knowing that I can come in and that it's a very lighthearted environment here, knowing that I can come in on the morning and see Caiden and Kristine and talk about the strange dreams that we have. That's the first thing that we talk about every morning. On a larger scale, I think that someone else could be here doing exactly what I do, and they could be doing it even better than what I do and I think-
Jeff: I disagree, but go on.
Sierra: I think that knowing that there are a lot of people out there that do exactly what you do and there are always going to be people that are more experienced in what you do, the fact that you are replaceable, I think that's a huge motivator for me to just continue to be enthusiastic, and continue to learn, and view your weaknesses and make those weaknesses strong points.
Jeff: That is something that we've talked about multiple times on this podcast. In fact very recently, Dustin, you brought that up, making your weaknesses your strengths.
Dustin: Yeah. I feel like it's almost like a blessing to have a weakness because you're able to focus on that and you become better at that one thing than most anybody else.
Dustin: Yeah. So can you list your three favorite co-workers and your three least favorite co-workers?
Jeff: If you do not say Mike Brown first, we have something to tell you. No, I'm just kidding. Another thing we like to ask employees when we have them on this podcast is, like you kind of touched upon in the beginning, even though you came on as Death Wish was learning that they had won the Superbowl commercial and it's just been this whirlwind, it's been a constant growth ever since then. From your standpoint in the company and the way that you've seen that growth in the last year and a half, where do you see the company in the next handful of years, three, five years? Do you see ... Is there any lofty goal that you think we're going to achieve or that you'd love to see us achieve?
Sierra: It's cool to see the coffee entering into a new community. I feel like the outdoors community has Red Bull, but then it's really sweet to see when those big people in that community, they're starting to drink our coffee and, I think, just watching us slowly make our way into different communities, even engineers, and people that code for a living. Oh my god, to watch them slowly live on our coffee, I think that's sweet, like watching us sweep everything. I hope to continue to see that.
Jeff: I do too. I loved how this company has no qualms about just being like, we are a lifestyle brand. Yes, we're coffee, but it doesn't matter what you do, we want to fuel that passion. That's what Death Wish is all about. It's interesting like you said. You never think about it, but the people who code, you brought that up. I think that's so awesome because it's like, those people are the ones who are making all the technology that we love. If we can fuel them to do that, that's a badge of honor.
Dustin: What's cool, being the world's strongest coffee, we naturally are attractive to people who work extremely hard because everybody who is working extremely hard is always wondering, how can I work harder? What's the best way to do that than legal drugs like caffeine?
Sierra: It's funny too because when you think of people that work really hard, you automatically think of the doctor, the nurse, those specific roles, but the truth is that there are people that work extremely hard in every field out there. I went to school for theater, and I think about technical theater people. They're up until 3:00 AM doing a final tech rehearsal. Those kinds of people need caffeine. To see that highly caffeinated coffee can fit into anyone's life in any way, especially talking ... There are great brewing methods out there like the Chemex, but it's cool that we as a company can fit into any lifestyle like with single serve cups or ...
Jeff: Totally. I'm not gonna let that go because you just touched on that. You went to school for theater? Really?
Sierra: I did, yeah.
Jeff: That's awesome. What side of theater did you go to school for?
Sierra: I went to school to become an actor.
Jeff: That's really awesome. Is it something that you still want to pursue?
Sierra: It's something that I try to implement into my day-to-day, but it's not so much something that I'd want to pursue. I think when I was in school I started to realize that. Someone told me if you could see yourself doing anything else, then don't go into acting. I was just someone that was very passionate about many different things. I'd much rather be that way, have many interests and many hobbies and not have one thing take over my entire life.
Jeff: That's an interesting piece of advice because especially for getting into an acting side, I've heard from people in that field that it's like, if you don't dive headfirst and give 110% every waking hour of the day, you're not gonna do anything with it. Actually, it almost sounds detrimental, but that actually is a pretty interesting piece of advice. I gotta ask though, what drew you to theater and the acting side, to begin with? Was it the stage, was it movies, was it like ... What kind of sparked that bug in you?
Sierra: Well, the first musical I was ever in as a teenager-
Jeff: Please say it was Annie.
Sierra: It was not Annie.
Jeff: You would make a great Annie, but go on.
Dustin: Don't stereotype, Jeff.
Jeff: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Sierra: It was Annie. No, I skipped every single rehearsal. I was like a silly teenager so I wanted to go home and play Guitar Hero instead of going to this thing that I viewed as work. Then the next show that I was in, I got a larger role in it. I just realized, I immediately regretted everything I had done in the past show. It just blew up for me. It's funny because I think I'm a pretty shy person, especially growing up. I wasn't very talkative, I wasn't very into being in large groups of people. I think that theater provided that outlet for me to get that. So yeah.
Dustin: Once again, making your weaknesses your strengths.
Sierra: Yeah, totally.
Dustin: Like I'm not a social person, let's become an actor.
Dustin: I feel like that's a good sign because now here you are. You're a professional social person.
Jeff: Basically. That is your calling at this point. You have to be like, you have to project yourself and put yourself out there. I'm sure you're drawing on some of the stuff you learned.
Sierra: That has definitely made me into more of an outgoing person in my day-to-day. I think even coming into this job a year and a half ago, I was very quiet. It took me a long time to actually talk to my coworkers just about other things other than work. Then I think as soon as I started talking to the wider base of people online, it actually did make me a very like ... I don't care anymore. I'm just kind of loud and [crosstalk 00:28:53]
Dustin: It's nice when your job is able to improve your real life because that doesn't usually happen. Most people don't get that ability to be able to do that. I'm definitely grateful for that. I used to be horrible on the phone. Phones used to scare the crap out of me. Now it's like every day, I am on that damn phone a lot. You know, you sit right behind me. That thing's ringing off the hook. It's like, that has improved my real life vastly. I'm more likely to call my mother on the weekends and-
Sierra: Yeah. I didn't even want to call my grandma as a kid and now I'm like, oh my god, it's Richard from Denver calling.
Dustin: Shoutout to Richard from Denver again.
Jeff: That's awesome. You got your niche now in this company, and we know that we're growing and we're getting out there. Is there aspects that you can see ... From your standpoint in customer service, are there aspects that you can see that you'd like to, maybe not change, but to add to, or to bolster, or to, I don't know, maybe change is the right word? Is there anything like ... If you had the ability to kind of get in there and-
Dustin: You put your Mike Brown hat on for a day, what would you do?
Sierra: That's a tough question. I think that when we were a three-person team, there were a lot of those things that we saw that we could change. Kristine came on right around the holiday season last year. Once she was trained and comfortable in the position, it's just crazy how much time that you have to dedicate to things that you didn't even know were a priority.
Sierra: I think that's something that should continue to improve. The three of us that are in customer service all day, myself, Caiden, and Kristine, we all have those things on our to-do list that are there every single day, but as we take on more people and we have more time on our hands, I realize that, oh my gosh, these Google reviews have never been responded to. If people look up Death Wish Coffee Company on Google and now see that there's someone responding to every single review that comes in, even if they're not coming in every single day, that person's probably gonna be more likely to check us out. I think it's just continuing to make time and see everything on your to-do list as a priority.
Jeff: I'm so impressed with the three of you and the amount of work that you can get done. From an outsider's perspective, you look something like customer service, especially for a small company like Death Wish Coffee. You can just think in layman's terms, oh yeah it's probably answering phone calls and dealing with emails and that's it. Like you said, there are so many aspects of the internet now where people can review us, talk about us. Just the simple act of interacting with each one takes, what, a handful of minutes, but you add all of that up and your eight hour day is done before you can even think about it. It's very impressive.
Sierra: Yeah. It's a different beast working at a company like this. You could work customer service at a Cablevision company, but no one's posting a photo on Instagram being like, oh my gosh.
Dustin: I love cable.
Sierra: I love cable. There are tons of people, especially like ... Think of the morning routine. It's crazy to see how many people post on Instagram in the morning their Death Wish mug. It's just having the time to see every one of those and at least giving it a like or maybe shooting them a comment. Yeah.
Dustin: Yeah, I can see in the future us having a social interaction team.
Sierra: I hope so.
Dustin: You will be the head of that.
Sierra: I hope so.
Dustin: Alright. We ask all the employees, and no bullshit answers here.
Jeff: This cannot be a bullshit.
Dustin: Valhalla Java or Death Wish?
Sierra: Death Wish.
Jeff: You're the first person to not even just hem and haw about that or anything. Honest to god. Everybody else, like we always get people, "Uh, you know, well, there's sides of both." Like just, that's it. I gotta ask then the follow-up, do you like Valhalla Java? Don't worry, Zack Wilde is not right outside that room.
Dustin: His guitar is right behind us though. Ignore that.
Sierra: I do like the Valhalla Java, but when I come in in the morning and I see that the Valhalla Java single serve cups are out, I do go out of my way to get a Death cup instead. I have to say that when it comes to the Death Wish, I am loving the Death Wish Nitro right now. My routine is hot coffee in the morning and then as soon as I come back from my lunch break, I crack open-
Dustin: Then you get out of work and you blast ten more. You go, rock on.
Sierra: I smash them against my head.
Jeff: I think I might have said this on a previous podcast, but I've learned that I can't have the Nitro Brew after 2:00, 3:00 in the afternoon or I'm sitting on my couch at 10:00 at night like, huh, huh. I'll sleep sometime, right? They're intense, but I love them too.
Sierra: I love that. I get up, I do some yoga, I hula hoop until I'm ready to pass out.
Jeff: You're the best. Oh my god. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, for taking time out of your busy schedule.
Dustin: Thank you for being awesome.
Sierra: Thank you for inviting me. It's so cool to be in this room with you guys.
Jeff: You are the first actual guest that we've had since everything's been really set up, visual and audio. So congrats on that. That will always live in the history books. You can have that as a badge of honor, I was the first. But yeah, thanks so much. I'm sure anybody who's watching or listening to this will be able to interact with you whenever they need to on our social media and all of the different reviews and everything else that you take care of.
Dustin: Any shoutouts or plugs you want to give before we let you go here?
Sierra: Thank you to the rest of the customer service team for always putting up with my Spongebob references, and thank you for fueling them and giving me Spongebob references back.
Dustin: That's great. Alright. Thank you so much, Sierra.