Ken Reid is a stand-up comedian from Boston who also hosts his own podcast, TV Guidance Counselor. Ken has an extensive collection of TV Guides and invites guests on his show to walk down memory lane one week of TV programming at a time. He also talks about his start in comedy and how he believes comedy and horror are very much alike.
Jeff: Starting the show off, I want to get into what you do as a podcaster, because that's very exciting as well. You also are a stand up comedian, and I'm always curious talking to comedians as to what sparked in them the idea that they wanted to get up in front of people and desperately try to make them laugh. What made you get into that game and want to be a stand up comedian?
Ken: The answer that is less exciting is a terrible childhood and a survival reaction. The answer to that that's slightly more exciting is I was always a fan of comedy, and especially sitcoms and stand up and growing up in the 80s when stand up was ubiquitous on television because it was very cheap and it was on every single channel. I kind of got a crash course like many of us did in stand up structure and how it worked and all that sort of thing. Then I was in a punk rock band for years when I was a teenager, so I got used to getting up on stage and booking shows and hustling that way. When that dissolved, I finally decided I'll just try to do stand up.
Jeff: Nice. What'd you play?
Ken: I sang, making air quotes as I say that, and I played a little bit of guitar.
Jeff: Nice, nice.
Dustin: I mean, you talked a little bit about how that helped you transition into a comedian, and I mean fronting a band. Can you talk a little bit more about that, how that was going from a lead singer of a band to a comedian?
Ken: It's never what you think it will be because when you're in a band, you tell a joke in between songs or make a crack and you get a huge laugh, because everyone there presumably likes you and they're also not expecting it. Then you go on stage as a comedian and go, it'll be just like talking between songs, and then it's not like that at all, and you realize that is a real sort of arsenal, you have an arsenal of tools in a band to win over an audience, like cover songs. People can watch bands and go, "I didn't really like the band that much, but their guitar player was great," or, "They did one song I really liked," and people don't watch comedy that way. It's definitely a shock when you start doing stand up. At the same time with stand up, you can change the direction you're going mid-bit, which you can't really do in the middle of the song. You don't have to worry about other people and you don't have to load gear in and out, which is nice. I've been hit by a brick doing both stand up and music. That's a commonality between the two.
Dustin: Oh my god. Who throws bricks? Where were you? Were you in the same place?
Ken: No, no. In the band we got booked on a show in Southern New Jersey that ended up being in a log cabin, it was us, and the other bands were all white power skinhead bands, which I should mention we were not. I made an executive decision that we would play non-ironic Prince covers for our set, and about 25 seconds into I Wanna Be Your Lover I got hit with a brick. Doing stand up that's happened as well, because I started doing stand up when I lived in London and when I moved back to Boston, I didn't really know anyone who did stand up here and I only knew people in bands, so I was doing stand up opening for bands, which is the worst place to do stand up.
Dustin: Yeah, it seems like that would be ... I've seen it happen a few times at shows that Jeff and I have played. It's been like, yeah, this isn't going to work, nobody likes that.
Ken: No, I mean they listen to music and listen to comedy in two totally different ways. Comedy you have to pay attention and it's very active, and there's also, especially a lot of people who aren't going specifically to see a comedy show have an adversarial relationship with the comedy show because they're already like, "You think you're funny? Prove it!" You're already, that's two strikes against you when you're up there opening for a band. It's difficult. With a band, people can talk to a girl or half pay attention, whatever it is. They never work.
Dustin: I feel like there's a big difference between people sitting and watching comedy and standing and watching comedy, and the same thing with music, and it's kind of opposite. With music, you want everybody standing up watching and maybe dancing a little bit. Comedy, you most definitely want people sitting. I think a standing comedy room is always just a bit odd.
Ken: Yeah. I think one's more physically interactive and one's more mentally interactive. You can't really do both at the same time.
Jeff: I have a lot of respect for comedians because like Dustin was saying, both himself and myself are musicians, we've played in bands together. That's something that I enjoy but watching you guys get on stage and desperately trying to win over a crowd like you were saying, that's something that I have a lot of respect for. You mentioned that you're from Boston and you grew up with the comedy boon in the 80s, which it was, it was when television kind of was like, okay, comedians are where the money is at. We're going to make sitcoms out of it, we're going to make, stand up was on every single night on every channel, you could see it all over the place. Growing up in a place like Boston, that's a big comedy city. Were you emersed in that culture at all when you were younger?
Ken: A little bit. It was hard not to absorb it a little bit here. We had three sort of big waves of comedy, the first one being, the first real comedy boon we had here was at a place called The Ding Ho, which was a Chinese restaurant in Cambridge, Mass, and there's a great documentary about it called When Stand Up Stood Out, but the people who started there was like Steven Wright, Lenny Clarke, Bobcat Goldthwait towards the end, Tom Kenny who's Spongebob Squarepants, a lot of those people. Then the second wave, which is kind of all the mainstream comedians that we have now all started at a place called Catch a Rising Star in Cambridge and that was Mark Maron, Louis C.K., Laura Kightlinger, Janeane Garofalo, David Cross, a lot of Mr. Show people, they all started out of there. Then in the late 90s, early 2000s when I was starting, I kind of came on the tail end of the comedy studio boom, which was Larry Murphy, Jenn Kirkman, Eugene Mirman, Patrick Borelli, Brendon Small, speaking of someone who's in bands and does comedy.
Ken: That was sort of the last wave. As I got older, I was more aware of it because I was doing to more shows, but the Catch a Rising Star boom in the mid-80s, I used to hang around in Harvard Square a lot, and I was too young to get into the club, but they had a speaker on the sidewalk to sort of entice people to come in, and I would just stand under the speaker and listen to the shows.
Jeff: Oh, cool.
Ken: I was a little bit aware, as much as I could be.
Jeff: Right. You also mentioned that you lived in London for a little bit. Is there a difference in the comedy scene over in the UK than it is in America?
Ken: Yeah, definitely. I haven't been back in a while, but it definitely always has been different. Historically in the 80s, when we were having that brick wall pushed up sleeves what's the deal with comedy boon, they had what we would call an alt comedy boom, the front runners of which were all the guys from the show The Young Ones. They really, alt comedy became the mainstream there. Their mainstream comedy is much stranger and weirder and smarter and was more character based and just stranger. They were generally more used to weirder stuff and not so much observational stuff, and I like that. The other thing was though that when I started there, and I don't do that much pop culture stuff in my act now even though my podcast is all that, I don't mean it's all that like-
Jeff: Like the show, All That.
Ken: It's just a podcast where I reenact all of the episodes of All That. I have the scripts and I play all the parts. I incorporate a little bit of that in my act now, but when I started in London, obviously it's difficult to do that from a culture that didn't grow up with what you did. It kind of made my stand up more focused on sort of stories about growing up and more universal stuff. When people heckle you over there, it's not like, "You suck, you're gay," like it is here in Boston, which I think people still yell. I'm not gay by the way but it's fine if I was, but that's what people yell. It's very pointed observant heckles, like, "It's not logical," or like, "That doesn't check out." It's much more, it's almost helpful heckles there.
Dustin: Constructive criticism yelled out in a British accent. "You could wear better knickers!"
Jeff: That's funny. Right before we get into your podcast, I actually was listening to some recent episodes on your podcast. You brought up something that I wanted you to talk a little bit on our podcast. You recently said, I think it was on your newest episode, that you believe, and I've never heard anybody say it like this before, that comedy and horror are basically the sisters of each other, the genres are sisters of each other. Can you speak on that a little bit? I think that's very interesting.
Ken: Yeah. They're identical in structure, the only difference being the payoff. I always bring it up in the context of Stephen King's book Danse Macabre, which I always recommend that anyone who wants to write anything reads, but especially anyone who wants to do comedy, because he really gets into the structure of horror. Part of the big revelations he has in that book is that context is a big deal. He uses the clown at midnight sort of example, and a lot of people wouldn't agree with this now, but a clown at the circus is funny, a clown on your lawn at midnight is terrifying. The inverse is true as well. A serial killer at a circus is funny, but on your lawn is scary. That's the context it's supposed to be. In that way, they're sisters, but also it's that build up and release. It's the same exact structure and timing and function, just with like I said a different sort of button on the end. I always try to bring it up for new comics when they ask me, god forbid they ask me, because you have shock jokes, so like a Nazi joke or rape joke that a lot of people do when they first start because it gets a reaction. That's the joke equivalent of throwing a cat at someone in a horror movie, everyone's going to jump, but then it's sort of at the expense of the rest of the move. They don't trust you anymore, and they're kind of mad you made them react, whereas if you build real character, if you build a real story, they're invested in what happens to that character. If it's something funny, they laugh a lot harder and they think about it a lot longer. If it's something scary or terrible, they feel it much more deeply, and it's exactly the same, which is why when horror comedies work, they're people's favorite movies.
Dustin: It's almost like two sides of the same coin, you know?
Jeff: It's an interesting thought. I had never really thought about it before. When you even boil it down to the reaction that you get from either genre, they go hand-in-hand. A lot of times a jump scare in a horror movie will immediately make you gasp and be scared, and that's almost always followed by a giggle, you're almost always relieved after the fact. The same thing happens with a shocking joke-
Dustin: Or even like slapstick comedy. Slapstick comedy is kind of like if horror was extra gory. It's very heavy handed. It makes sense.
Ken: If you look at a movie like Dead Alive or Evil Dead 2, that's slapstick comedy, so over the top gory that it becomes slapstick comedy. The reason we have comedy and horror I think are the same. It's the sort of cathartic release from terrible things. You depower scary things when you laugh at them or when you put rules around them or sort of contain them in a story or movie. I always feel like, you know, that's why you have good representations of sort of a psyche of a culture at the same time. I'm also a huge horror fan, which is probably evident. I think that that's why they're sort of sister genres.
Dustin: That makes sense man.
Jeff: It really does.
Dustin: When are people going to start doing stand up horror?
Ken: I've seen it every week. I don't think people intentionally do it. I actually did have an idea for a stand up horror movie and it was about, because stand up comedians when they're off-stage tend to be pretty unremarkable and travel around a lot and don't talk to anyone ever, it was someone who was a stand up comedian who was also a hitman or serial killer, could be either one, but they just sort of travel from town to town and murder people on stage and off.
Dustin: When I'm thinking stand up horror, I'm thinking more like that scene and interview with a vampire where they eat that girl on stage, something more like that.
Ken: The [inaudible 00:13:22] kind of thing.
Jeff: Touring the country just eating people on stage. All right, all right. I like where this is going. These are good ideas. The other side of you that at least is known to the public is your podcasting side. I'm really, really interested in your podcast, which I'm going to hopefully not murder this, it's the TV Guidance Counselor podcast correct?
Jeff: That started from your collection of TV guide, and I'm a collector too, I've been collecting comic books my entire life, and I know the allure of collections, but I think that's quite the odd one to start, and you, correct me if I'm wrong, you started this at a young age, collecting TV guides correct?
Ken: Yeah. Probably two or three years old. I also was collecting comics then too.
Jeff: Where did the TV guide collection come from? What sparked that in you?
Ken: We used to get it at our house and I started reading very early and I loved television. I realized they would deliver this thing in the mailbox every Wednesday, and I could sit down and sort of get a preview of what was going to be on in the next week, and I could sit down and plan my week. In the age before everyone had a VCR and DVRs, it was the way to do it. Especially with horror movies, because you would look through the movie section in the back and there was a lot of movies that you couldn't see anymore, weren't on video, or hard to see, so you would make a note to watch them. I would look through the TV guide from cover-to-cover that way. I also realized that it had very informative articles and really interesting futurism stuff about technology coming out and very insightful media criticism and reviews of things. That was very helpful as well. Because you can only watch one thing at a time, there were shows I couldn't watch that I could read about, and it was almost like watching them. I was sort of really into it for that reason. Then we didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up, so I would make my own money. Actually my first sort of major money making scheme was I used to buy and flip comic collections when I Was eight, nine years old and had a decent amount of money from it and I would pay for my own subscriptions. I just held on to them. In the late 90s, there was two libraries, one was in Maine and one was in Nebraska I think that were getting rid of all their physical periodicals in favor or microfiche or digital something, and so I took all their collections. I had them, and they're fun, because when people would ask me before I started doing the podcast, they would say, "Why do you have all these TV guides," and I would joke and say, "Alibis." It's like, oh, where was I on the night of June 5th, 1980, I was watching Barney Miller and I'll tell you exactly what happened. It is kind of interesting, these things that were made to be disposable, these things that were made to only be relevant for one week end up being the most accurate insightful snapshot of a time and a place, and when you start to look at them, this sort of cultural picture of the time really begins to come into focus, and that's very interesting to me.
Jeff: It's kind of weird listening to you talk about it, and I'm kind of drawing a parallel with music nowadays, because same thing with movies, everything's on demand. You can just listen or watch anything you want at any point in time. You talking about TV guides kind of reminds me of how it was when you bought an album and you took the time and you sat down and you flipped through the album, or maybe the radio was enticing and you'd just wait for your favorite song to come on and-
Dustin: I used to tape songs off the radio, yeah.
Ken: You were invested. People are used to things for free now, but with movies and television and music, I always say, there's a lot of albums that people recommended to me that I bought and I hated, but because I bought it, I sat down and I listened to that thing until I liked it. Often those end up being some of my favorite albums ever. It took four or five or six listens all the way through for it to kind of click. Movie's the same way. If you rented a movie, you plunked down your three bucks, you're going to sit and watch the whole movie even if the first 20 minutes is bad. Now someone just flips to a new movie on Netflix. People were exposed to more stuff and were invested in more things, and there's also a thrill with radio and television with something just coming up, just stumbling on things. One of the things I always talk about is when I was five years old, I also had horrible insomnia when I was a kid, I slept maybe two hours a night, and I was watching MTV at 11 o'clock at night, and The Young Ones came on and The Damned were on. I didn't know what it was, but it was that moment where you go, this is everything I like in the world right now. I was like, I'm into punk rock, there's a vampire singing a song, the show is great. It's a complete, it's serendipity. I just happened to stumble on it, I didn't seek it out. That's one of the things I think we lose now. In addition to that shared experience, all of us that grew up pre-millennium, no matter what we're like now or where we stand on things now, we all have the shared experience of pretty much watching the same shows. There's a value to that. Whereas now I often wonder what younger people's shared experience is and it's like cat videos or national tragedies.
Jeff: Yeah. I've wondered the same thing, because we're all roughly the same age and we're all products of that TV generation. I remember growing up through the 80s, it was something that wasn't talked about, and then into the 90s and even into the 2000s, it was something that was lambasted and people were like, "You grew up with television and television was the babysitter-"
Dustin: We had three channels!
Jeff: Yeah, and television was terrible for you. You look back on it now, and you just touched on it, it was a shared experience. TV guide wasn't just the ability to go and see what was going on for the week. In a lot of households, it was, you would have one television, so it was your family time. It was like, okay, we're going to all sit around and watch this television show or this movie that's going to be on cable because it's something we can all enjoy together, and then those become those shared experiences. I'm the same thing with you, I wonder what is it, what is galvanizing this generation because they don't have that.
Jeff: Are they all watching the same thing? All doing the same thing?
Ken: I guess when they live tweet things, I mean, that's why you see television really push more towards live events like those live musicals, shows like American Idol and sporting events, because those are the only thing that people feel like they need to watch then and there, day and date. I think we have lost a lot of things. Television is a very intimate medium because it's pumped into your house and you watch it in your environment, so it's a shared experience that's also very intimate, which is a very odd combination of things. Also, I feel like a generation has lost the ability to learn how to bargain for things, like when you had multiple people in a house and there was a show you wanted to watch, you had to make a case for it because there's one TV. You had to learn how to sort of sell a thing to other people. You also ended up watching a lot of stuff that you maybe didn't like or wouldn't have initially watched because someone else wanted to watch it that you ended up really liking, so sort of being forced to be exposed to a lot of things. As a kid who grew up with not a lot of money, I also have to say that although it wasn't technically free, for basically free I was able to get an education on all kinds of incredible things and movies and documentaries and things about the world that I would never be exposed to otherwise. I know the internet can do that now, but you have to seek it out, it's not just sort of curated for you.
Jeff: Totally. You had this collection since you were a young kid. When did the idea to start your podcast kind of germinate with you?
Ken: Probably about four years ago. I always wanted to do a podcast, but I didn't really have a good idea, and I didn't want to do another podcast about, like, comedians talking about comedy. I feel like number one, that's not really that interesting to anyone who doesn't want to be a comedian, and two, a lot of people already did, and a lot of people already did it very well, and it was kind of taken care of. When people would come over to my house, I have these TV guides in this big spinning rack in my living room, I'm looking at it right now. They would come over and inevitably they would sort of drawn to these TV guides and grab one and flip through and go, "Hey I remember this show. I forgot about this show." My friend Sean Sullivan, who's a very funny Boston comedian, one day just said, "That's the podcast." Someone picks a TV guide and then you talk about that week, and that's pretty much exactly what the podcast is. That's kind of how it started, so I said, "That's a great idea," and that's what I did.
Jeff: I think that's a fascinating idea because like you touched on earlier, it is a snapshot of time, you made the joke you could have the alibi, but you really can because, I mean, again drawing from my own experience, I grew up with the television and not only do I remember specific shows, but I remember specific episodes, specific things that in my life were happening when Al Bundy was yelling at Peg or random things would happen on the TV but then translate to my life. That's why I'm fascinated by your show, because I think it's a great idea and it wasn't something you had to seek out, because you already had the material at your fingertips.
Ken: Yeah. I think a lot of podcasts have a very artificial premise. This is truly something that I love talking about, and I love talking to people. I think I'd been doing stand up 10 or 12 years when I started it, but I realized that I actually enjoy speaking to other people and getting their story a lot more than I enjoy, although I still like doing stand up, but I like that a lot more than I enjoy the sort of false one-sided conversation of stand up.
Ken: It's a very different conversation and I really love it. To your point, because it's that intimate thing that's in your house, we probably watched the same episode of Married With Children, but you have a very distinct memory of what was going on in your life and in your house at that point, and that's very interesting. It's almost like An American Tail and Somewhere Out There, we're all underneath the same bright television, we're all doing these kinds of things. Especially now where it's much easier to find people with common interests to be friends with. When we were growing up, your friend base was sort of limited to physical proximity.
Jeff: Mine was zero.
Ken: Yeah. Add a common interest, that was unbelievable. Now it's interesting to find people that I've gravitated towards as friends in adult life and to hear that, we really did watch the same things, we really did have these common interests when we were kids, and that's also a fascinating angle for me.
Jeff: Yeah, that's really, really fun. I've got to ask then, if you were to pick out a single week, could you do that, out of your entire collection? Is there a week that gravitates to you, a TV guide that gravitates to you more than others? I know that's got to be a mountain of a question.
Ken: There's definitely a block of years. Most people I think end up picking between ages 8 and 12, that seems to be everybody's sweet spot, because you're old enough to have your own taste, but not old enough to go out or anything. It's also very formative for your interests and that sort of thing. I would say probably 1990 and there's a TV guide about all the new horror anthology shows and all the new horror shows, it's the Halloween week TV guide. I love that week, because you had the new Dark Shadows, you had Friday the 13th the series, they focused on the Dracula syndicated series, Tales From The Darkside, Monsters, Tales From The Crypt had started. It was very much a very specific time for me. I kind of gravitate towards that. A lot of people end up picking stuff like their birthday week, a holiday, those tend to be when they remember watching the most stuff.
Jeff: Right. I think it's interesting too because the TV guide then, like you just said, that one issue, like, Tales From The Crypt was just starting. That becomes a historical document at that point. We forget some of this stuff has been part of the pop culture lexicon now for decades, and you forget that there was moments in time before it existed and that sweet spot, like that week when it premiered, it's like, that's fun to think about, that there's that moment in time that's frozen in that TV guide. It's an interesting thing.
Ken: Yeah. I'm always fascinated by the fall preview issues because they go through all of the new shows starting, and they treat them all with the same reverence. It's interesting to see this sort of road not taken, because often times they'll say, "This show is great, it's going to be the big show," and it was canceled after thee episodes.
Jeff: Get ready for the Dana Carvey Show, it's coming, you know, and it's just like-
Ken: Yeah. It's interesting what they, without hindsight, with foresight what they thought of these shows, and that's always very interesting to me.
Jeff: Yeah. That's amazing. One question we ask every single week of everybody that we talk to on our podcast is this question of, you are someone who has grown up with the idea of TV as your friend, it's kind of shaped and molded you along with the TV guide, and then that has also led to your love of punk rock, of horror, and also your other career of stand up comedian and all that. What fuels you to keep getting out there and doing this kind of stuff, to keep getting out there, getting on stage, being that stand up comedian, but also coming up with these new ideas like having a podcast? What fuels you to keep doing the things that you like to do?
Ken: Am I supposed to say Death Wish Coffee?
Jeff: No, not at all. In fact, we'll yell at you for saying that.
Dustin: We'll yell at you and then send you a check.
Ken: It's funny you ask me that, because every morning I drink Death Wish Coffee. No, it's a combination of things. I think it's, I really love doing it. It's something I enjoy doing. It doesn't feel like work. I think that's the key to it. I would do this podcast and stand up if nobody listened, I would still do it. I'm sort of compelled to do it. Sometimes I describe stand up as being a werewolf, where you just are like, I'm going to go do it, lock me up! Lock me up! It's a compulsion. The other thing is I get a thrill out of, with stand up especially, getting a reaction from strangers, a reaction that I wanted to get, an intended reaction. It's sort of a thrill to control a room of strangers, this sounds very evil, but you're taking them down a path and you're making them react, and that's thrilling and even if it's not a laugh, whatever it was your intention was. The other part is I'm fascinated by, and this is very Cronenbergian, but I'm fascinated by the concept of sort of a verbal virus, in that a lot of my stuff is stories about growing up are my life experiences. Talking about them on stage or on the podcast, they sort of infect people's brains. It's like pieces of your life end up living in other people that you don't know and it sort of spreads out. That was the same way with bands too, like you'd go, and I'm sure you guys have had this, where like the audience is yelling your lyrics back to you and you're like, "Wow, this is something I wrote on a notebook in English class and now this stranger's yelling it back to me." It's this weird sort of infection of ideas and I kind of like that, which again sounds super creepy.
Jeff: You're literally just casting a spell.
Ken: Yeah, exactly. You're changing the world with your words.
Jeff: Yeah. That's pretty cool. With your podcast, do you find because you, you were saying a lot of your stand up is based with stories about your childhood and growing up and that kind of thing. Do you find that having this podcast now, that helps you craft your material for your stand up?
Ken: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm talking a couple hours a week, which is always helpful with stand up, and unlike music, that was one of the other big differences with stand up, you can't practice it on your own, you have to practice in front of people, which is really strange. Like if you were practicing scales and you booked it as a show, and people show up and you're just running through scales, they're kind of like, "What the hell is this?" That's basically what you have to do with stand up. Being able to talk to people, I actually generate a lot more material from talking to people on the podcast than I generally do working stuff out on stage these days. That's a huge benefit to me and people who don't have to see me work stuff out on stage.
Jeff: Wow, that's cool. Okay. Let everybody know where we can find you, first your podcast, the TV Guidance Counselor, where can we find that?
Ken: Yeah. You can go to TVGuidanceCounselor.com and it's on there. It's also on iTunes and Google Play and Stitcher and all the usual podcast places, SoundCloud.
Jeff: Excellent. Yeah, I'll put up some links for that. For you, stand up, throughout the end of 2017 into maybe 2018, do you have anything that you can talk about where you're going to be?
Ken: Nothing major. They can go to IKenReid.com, I K-E-N R-E-I-D.com because KenReid.com was taken by a conservative southern politician who I occasionally get emails for and I always answer them, and at one point was quoted in a local paper and he was very mad.
Jeff: I love it!
Dustin: Talk about a verbal virus.
Ken: They asked me if I was Ken Reid and I commented on this. I don't know why they were asking me about the Loudoun County Teacher's Union.
Jeff: Boy, did you have opinions about it.
Ken: Yeah. I told them that they can go fuck themselves, and it got attributed to this guy and he was not happy about it.
Jeff: That's funny.
Ken: Yeah, all my stuff is on there. I also just, TBS just did like a weird three part little web documentary about me that just started airing today. That's up as part of New York Comedy Festival. All my shows will be up on IKenReid.com as well.
Jeff: Excellent, excellent. Man, it was really, really fun to talk to you, and thanks for taking the time to talk with us on our podcast, and we're going to tell all of our listeners to go check out your podcast, because again, I just love the premise of it. TV is, it molded me into who I am.
Dustin: Power Rangers, man. I'm like a perfect mix of Power Rangers and HBO's Real Sex.
Ken: Yeah, and you know what, today you could actually have that mix somewhere, it's probably on the internet.
Jeff: Exactly. It's ridiculous, but I think it's great that you're, like I said, keeping that historical record of this whole entire culture alive and everything, and I think it's great. I can't thank you enough for being a guest on our show.
Ken: Thank you so much for having me. It's been great talking to you guys.